Tuesday, September 24, 2013

Who's At Fault?

Have you followed the news story concerning the mega party that a group of approximately 300 teens had in the vacant home of ex-NFL player, Brian Holloway?

If you haven't let me catch you up to speed.

On August 31st, a mob of an estimated 300 teenagers broke into the Stephentown, New York home of former pro football player Brian Holloway and trashed it, causing thousands of dollars worth of damage.

At the time, Holloway was in Tampa, Florida  where the family currently resides, but learned of the party as it was happening because many of the kids there sent out tweets about it! (some of the reports say that one of Brian's sons saw all the tweets and called his dad about it.)

At first Holloway thought the whole thing was a joke, until he saw photos of the damage on the Internet.

Holloway described what he was seeing on Twitter in an interview with Fox News, saying, “We started
reading all these tweets of people tweeting ‘I can’t believe Holloway’s house, this is awesome. We are trashing the joint. I can’t believe it. We can’t wake this girl up. You know who cares. This is the best party of my life. I can’t believe there is this many cool drugs.’”

By the time police arrived, windows and doors were kicked in, holes had been punched in the walls, and all of the carpets had been destroyed by beer, vomit, and urine.

Thought Number One:  Fighting Fire With Fire

So what is a guy to do when he realizes that an out-of-state property that he owns is being trashed?  In this case, Brian created a website called  HelpMeSave300.  Interesting reading, especially if you want to
find out all the ways to misspell bad words.

I am positive that Crabby Pants, had nothing to do with it.
Anyway,....On the website, Brian and his family started posting all the  pictures and tweets from the party to point out those responsible for "hosting" the party, those attending and all the resulting damage.  He issued an invitation for those that attended to come forward and take some accountability.  At that point, there was more a tone of  trying to give the kids a chance to make amends without charges being filed. (a few more current revisions aren't sounding quite so friendly.)

BUT...of course, that's when things got problematic.  The parents of the kids that have their partying little trespassers exposed on a website, are not happy.  NO THEY AREN'T HAPPY AT ALL.  They have had their lawyers tell Brian to take the website down or they will file suit.  The parents say that Brian has no right to hurt their children's reputation and possibly cause them future problems such as having trouble with college admittance.

Brian's lawyers on the other hand, say the kids posted the pictures to public spaces for all to see and they have no right to insist that they are private.

AND YET THERE IS MORE....Now TMZ reports that the Brian was behind in his mortgage payments and the house potentially was going to go into foreclosure.  They went on to say that there was some disrepair there anyway.  There is a  barn on the property, for example, had some graffiti prior to the party. The family does say that is true, but it was just friend and family names, not the huge amount of obscene graffiti that the party goers left.

So...have we got it right?  The kids are being defamed, according to
the parents.  Oh, and their little darlings didn't do all the damage because the house wasn't being cared for properly.  I am so confused!!! So if you get behind in your mortgage payments,your house is open territory for 300 drinking, partying teenagers that can tweet their little asses off and not be held accountable? 

Thought Number Two:  When Will The Time Come When Victims Quit Being Victimized

I don't really see how the condition of the house, prior to the party matters.  Nor does it matter if Brian was defaulting on the loan.  The fact remains that about 300 kids had an unauthorized party, with underage drinking, illegal drugs and now have parents that are sheltering their kiddos from taking some accountability.

Watch out if you take things of ours, Crabby Pants is looking for a fight.

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chubby chatterbox said...

When will parents realize that sheltering their kids from responsibility for their actions only ensures that these parents will eventually be dealing with even bigger problems. Weeds need to be pulled out when they're small before the roots grow too deep.

Just Keepin' It Real Folks said...

Unflippingbelievable!!!!!! These parents should be ashamed of themselves and their entitled children should not be able to sit down for a week from the ass whoppin' they should have received. Reminds me of the story out of Texas where an elderly man fatally shot an intruder and the victim's family insisted the man should have given the intruder (who had a criminal record) fair warning before he fired his gun. I say the warning was the click of the trigger baby.

meleahrebeccah said...

"Brian's lawyers on the other hand, say the kids posted the pictures to public spaces for all to see and they have no right to insist that they are private."

Yeah - Um - Brian's lawyers are CORRECT. Yes?

I think it's an absolute SHAME what those asshole teenagers did to that house. And if MY SON was EVER involved with something like that? I would friggen KILL HIM. And ground him for MONTHS and take away ALL social media tools.

"The fact remains that about 300 kids had an unauthorized party, with underage drinking, illegal drugs and now have parents that are sheltering their kiddos from taking some accountability."

That is INSANITY to me. Total insanity.

Wendy said...

If the kids were all sending tweets, then it is obvious they were there. If the kids posted pictures of themselves to FB, then it is obvious they were there. I clearly do not understand parents not seeing this as an admission of fault. I am sure that some parents have come forward, or disciplined their children. Please don't tell me I am being illusional. Some parents, please! One wonders who got the info out about the mortgage, and what does that have to do with it anyway? Even if I tore out ALL my own walls, that does not give anyone permission to come into my house without permission. I too am so confused at these parents. It isn't just the mayhem, it is that these teens are so inclined to do the mayhem. Why, why , why do they feel their life is so miserable?(ie all the cool drugs here, and girls passed out drunk who cares lines). Cheryl, Crabby Pants would NEVER be part of such an abhorrent actions. If she just happened to be there, I am sure the police would have been there much much earlier.

Cheryl said...

I had to read this twice. The biggest reason is because I understood you the first time then before commenting, I clicked on the Save300 link and got lost in a morass of bullshit that made my brain explode. I made it well past the mid-point when one last neuron with an ounce of sense fired the nerves of my index finger long enough for it to hit the back button. Thankfully, I landed back in the land of common sense but, deprived of sanity for over 10 minutes, my brain needed to regroup so I reread your post to cleanse my bullshit meter and here I am finally ready to comment.

That bunch of idiots and every last one of their children should go to Holloway's home to clean, paint, and repair all the damage to the property regardless of whether or not they think they caused it because some of their tweets clearly suggest they don't remember exactly what they did. All property that was stolen needs to be returned or a fund created that all 300 should contribute to for replacing those items. Finally, another fund needs to be created and every parent needs to contribute equally so Holloway can afford to install an alarm system to protect his home from another attack.

Amen. Please say howdy to Crabby Pants for me. She looks like she's as ready to rumble as I am except she appears to be in better shape. Tell her I kinda hate her for that then jump back quickly so she doesn't slug you.

Cheryl P. said...

Good call, Lisleman.

Cheryl P. said...

I agree, they are setting themselves up for the expectation that mom and dad will be their "get out of jail" card.

I love your quote....perhaps I should needlepoint that onto pillows and send it to each of those kids families. Oh, they probably wouldn't appreciate my effort, would they?

Cheryl P. said...

I think having the kids charged would send a really positive message though.

That is an interesting story about the car chase. Holy crap...130 MPH. They are lucky no one got killed. Next time they might not be that lucky. That dad is setting a really bad example that might at some point come back to haunt him.

Cheryl P. said...

It made me mad as well, babs. I had heard the original story, then in the last couple of days there have been news of the impending law suits and such. I think those parents need to shut up before lawyers and judges get involved. Those kids could get into real legal problems that mom and dad can't get them out of .

Cheryl P. said...

I agree, Debra. This is really messed up. Love the lock and load line. If I ever get in trouble, I am calling you!!!

babs (beetle) said...

Sometimes it's better just to accept things, when you know they are guilty. The more fuss you make, the more attention is drawn to your kids. Pretty stupid really.

Cheryl P. said...

A word to the wise not to break into your place...click..boom. LOL

I remember another case in Texas. An elderly man in Houston shot two burglars and called 911 himself. In Texas the "stand your ground" law is taken seriously. Here in KS, we have a castle doctrine but you better be able to prove you were in mortal danger. I can think of two cases where homeowners went to jail for shooting someone that they said were intruders.

As far as being vandalized. I have no use for people destroying other people's property. There really needs to be harsher penalties for this type of thing...OH... AND identity theft...another crime that makes me crazy.

Cheryl P. said...

I think we will be hearing more about this story. I suspect that the town will have to do something to recover all the bad press they are getting.

As for why your son wouldn't do this...he would know that you wouldn't shelter him. Kids that know that there are consequences would think twice, wouldn't they? Or am I being naive?

lisleman said...

The son has been bad news for years.

Here's the newspaper story -


Cheryl P. said...

Yeah, crazy that they all but put up flares saying "look at us breaking the law." then expect not to be punished. According to his latest post on the webpage it looks like maybe 4 or 5 parents have contacted him and others are using lawyers. I am surprised that the local authorities haven't rounded up kids and charged them, with or without Brian Holloway's involvement.

I, agree, doesn't matter if all the windows and doors are open, people have no right to come into my place (or anyone's) without permission. Then to disrespect it, destroy it...sheesh...what makes a person behave like that?

Yes, Crabby Pants is a real stickler for following rules. She would of been snitching to the cops early on.

Cheryl P. said...

God, I hope your brain didn't really explode as you have had too many injuries as of late. I just can't bare the thought, that I would of added to your pain. Clearly your sense of humor isn't injured as I am laughing like a crazy woman over here about your "land of common sense." You are too funny.

I do agree with you about each and every teen that was involved in that debacle needs to put forth the effort to make it right with the Holloway family. Doesn't matter who thought of it or any of the details..if they participated they need to help correct it.

I don't think this story is over yet. I think that everyone is disgusted by the kids actions, as well as being angry about the parents trying to shield them.

Yes, Crabby Pants can be a force to be reckoned with. I try not to get to close to her...especially when she is in her boxing gloves. Yikes, she can be scarey.

Cheryl P. said...


Agent 54 said...

Crabby Pants looks good in Red.
I'm so sick of "the wrong doers" in this country playing the "victim" card.
I would have loved to introduce all 300 of these dumbasses to the my Chickenhawks team that won the SMHL championship. That might be a fair fight if my guys are drunk enough.

Wolfbernz said...

Hi Cheryl,
You're right, Throw the books at those kids. They knew they were doing wrong and they should be punished for it.
It's amazing how social networking ha changed the world isn't it? Knowing about the damage as it occurs, getting pictures of the trespassers in action....

Trina said...

Ever watch the movie Project X? There kids advertise the party on craigslist and it takes over a city block or two. I've read that the movie inspires parties like these. Either way, it's not cool.
The whole situation is ridiculous. The kids were caught red handed, they should be held accountable for their actions.
Clicks for you!

Cheryl P. said...

Crabby Pants said thanks. She's enjoying wearing the boxing gear.

I doubt that your hockey team would need to have alcohol. Just having hockey sticks and being able to out-maneuver the little vandals, would weigh in the Chickenhawks favor. (I am assuming that this would take place on ice, right?)

Cheryl P. said...

Yes, as much as the parents don't want to admit it, if they know their kids participated in this mess, they need to step and and figure out how to handle it properly. I can't imagine the stress that goes with having your child in this kind of media-driven nightmare but it's not going to go away quietly, I would suspect. Yes, I agree, Jo-Anne, if the kids faces are in the pictures, there is no way to deny it.

Cheryl P. said...

Exactly right, Wolf. This broadcasting one's indiscretions on Twitter and Facebook is a twist that I would of never seen coming. Isn't the whole point of doing illegal acts is to try to NOT be seen? Even the quality of "law breaking" is going down the tubes.

Cheryl P. said...

Trina, you are just a wealth of info. No, I haven't even heard of Project X. (I will of course be researching it momentarily) Sounds interesting.

I just find it absurd that kids drinking, doing drugs, trespassing etc. would consider it "smart" to document it and pass it around to others. Even drunk, it seems they would be trying not to broadcast that type of behavior.

The world can sometimes be a crazy place.

Cheryl P. said...

Holy,walking-time-bomb!!! That kid is scary. I don't know what needs to happen first...make sure he doesn't ever drive again or make sure he doesn't drink again. How can you get into that much trouble and not be in jail? And why is daddy taking care of him at 24 years old? I don't mean we can't help our adult children but not to the extent that a parent should help them continually break the law. That is one crazy story.

Riot Kitty said...

He's nicer than I am. What a bunch of little shits. And if my younger siblings ever tried stuff like that (not that they ever would), I'd threaten to post the stuff on my blog unless they turned themselves in and helped clean up, and apologized bigtime! WTF. Who can expect these kids to take accountability if their parents are also idiots?

oldereyes said...

I hadn't heard about this. I'm continually astonished at how many times young people not only break the law but tweet pictures of themselves doing it. And parents who sue because the owner posts the pictures? Un-freakin-believable. Still, it's proof that stupidity is hereditary. I found the whole Save the 300 a bit puzzling, though. What on earth makes these three hundred brats worth saving? They and their parents deserve all the bad publicity they get.

A couple years ago, my doctor and his family went on vacation and asked one of their sons friends to take care of the house. He has a party and they trashed the place including sawing the legs off the dining room table!

AletaObrien said...

I must live under a shell because I didn't know about this. Makes me want to slap the parents stupid. This is why we have a generation of kids growing up into adults thinking they can do and say anything they want, not work for a damn thing and everything will have revolve around them. Makes me sick. My parents would have ripped me a new one and I'd never have seen the light of day for a year or more of my life if I'd done something as horrible as that!

Cheryl P. said...

Yeah, I agree, RK. I wouldn't be taking this lying down. I would be expecting the local authorities to determine who these kids were and figure out restitution. I think there are some yet unanswered aspects to this story. I was on the helpmesave300 web site last night, reading some of the letters that Brian has received from some of the kids that were at the party. Interesting the difference in tone between some of them. One kid wants his name taken off the website because it's "stressing" him out. Another sounds totally sorry, has been given punishment, offers to clean up the mess but also said that the kid at the door said it was his house and that he left shortly there after realizing that the party was out of control, Which leads to varying degrees of guilt. I would want the kid at the door's head on a platter....well figuratively that is.

Cheryl P. said...

This social media climate of "spilling your guts" mystifies me. Isn't the whole point of crime is to not be caught? Yet, over and over again, criminals (or in this case stupid kids) put their misdeeds right next to their names and faces for all to see. Are kids getting more stupid. My kids covered their tracks far better than this.

Yeah, I found the website an interesting and puzzling component to this. In the initial NBC interview, I thought maybe Brian was being sympathetic because he is the father of 8 children and has had times that he would of wanted mercy for his children. Then, I sensed maybe (OK, the bitchy, skeptical Crabby Pants sensed) maybe this was a ploy for some positive press. (if it's any consolation, I slapped Crabby Pant's hand for being so mean-spirited)

Whatever his motives for the website, the fact remains the kids need to pay restitution and be involved in the restoration. They had no right to be there. Then when the parents got involved saying they wanted the website down or they would sue...now that adds another fly to the ointment.

What a shame about your doctor's place. What possesses people to do that sort of thing. I have heard of several similar party break-ins here in Johnson County. One house had more that $100K in damage.

Cheryl P. said...

Yes, I agree. I am curious if there is further press, if we hear from any of the party goers or their parents. There surely are some that are wanting to set things right with the Holloways. BUT there are so many parents out there that truly believe that their children can do no wrong. That has always been true though. Yes, my father, in particular, would of imploded if we ever got caught doing something like that but I can't imagine I would of ever gone to a wild party for fear of reprisal.

Cheryl said...

I sure wouldn't want to be on her bad side. I'm making an assumption that she has a good side based on her outrage over this incident.

Cheryl said...

Nope, not naive at all. Kids raised with clear boundaries and understanding that all actions have consequences, some good and some unpleasant, don't do stupid things. One caveat to that is that teens are under tremendous pressure to experiment with drinking and taking drugs. If they succumb, their behavior could change in a heartbeat because they're under the influence. Sounds like most of them were but it also sounds like it wasn't anyone's first time in that barrel.

Cheryl P. said...

You make a really good point, Cheryl. Kids that get messed up with drugs and alcohol may have behavioral changes. I have seen some kids from really nice homes go astray. All of that is beyond tragic. I think these parents have an opportunity to do right by their kids by forcing them to be held accountable. Letting this slide would be a huge mistake as it would imply "there are no consequences for bad behavior."

Rock Chef said...

That is just insane - I hope that he get stuff to stick and DOES ruin those idiots' lives - they are well on the way to doing that themselves, of course...
One thing we always told our kids when they were younger was that if we found that they had broken the law we would turn them in ourselves. Don't believe in parents acting like this!

abeerfortheshower said...

Crap, my house is dirty and one of the rooms is disheveled because my bro-in-law left all of his stuff here. I'd better fix that before teens come party here. It would practically be my fault.

It's amazing to me that in this digital age where teens are so prevalent to posting stupid pictures, that parents will blame anyone but their own kids for doing this. Brian Holloway's a better man than I am. If kids trashed my house, the last thing I'd want to do is try to help them.

Cheryl P. said...

Yah, I agree with you Rock Chef. These kids are headed for trouble and parents need to nip it in the bud. Better that they learn the concept of paying consequences to their actions ealry in life. These parents aren't doing their kids any favors. I was reading some of the letters on Holloway's website and it does sound like some of the parents have come forward as well as some of the kids. That was nice to see.

Cheryl P. said...

Seemingly the name of the game is passing the blame...so it couldn't be your fault. Let's blame your BIL for leaving his stuff. His STUFF all but begged teens to come over and trash your place.
I think there should be a new law added so cops can add additional charges for any crime that is video taped, tweeted or Facebooked. There really should be some penalty for being that level of stupid.
I wouldn't be forgiving at all. NADA. We were robbed years ago but the burglars trashed our house. If we would of ever found them I would of loved to do bodily harm. It was one thing to have our stuff stolen but cleaning up the horrific mess was unbearable. Just knowing all those dumped drawers and closets etc. had strangers digging through them gave me the creeps.

Dexter Klemperer said...

Wow, so much to think about! I do like Crabby Pants' "I don't get drunk, I get awesome" shirt. As despicable as the whole thing is, the parents actually do have a very valid legal point about posting those pictures on another website. Just because something is on the internet doesn't mean it isn't copyrighted. Slate had a very good article a few weeks ago (can't find the link due to their re-design, grrr) how a major newsfeed site grabbed a photo from someone's blog and the blogger sent them an invoice for copyright infringement and the news site eventually paid. So they probably should have just saved the pics for evidence rather than repost them.
So in short, if you see Crabby Pants appearing anywhere else on the internet, feel free to sue.

KatheW said...

well ....years from now when these kids are still irresponsible and getting into trouble will these parents wake up and smell the fact that they raised these children to not have to take responsibility for their actions. I say throw the book at them and if these pics are just from the "tweets" let the web site stay up for all to see.

Cheryl P. said...

I will be interested in how this plays out. I hired an IP attorney when I first drew my cartoons. The copyright for my blog is dicey without registering it every 90 days but I probably could prove my case in a court as I have the dated sketches.But short of litigation without an actual copyright in place your taking a chance. The problem with the social media sites, it there really isn't ownership after it is retweeted. Therefore it becomes public or at least as far as some court cases have ruled. The teacher that called her students all sorts of bad names tried to say that it was private lost her case as it was ruled that it wasn't private as it spidered through FB. She lost the case and her job.

I wouldn't steal a copyrighted anything knowingly and hope that people will do the same for me.

Oddly..I had a friend in Dallas that drew a cartoon strip that was syndicated in TX. She was in Nordstroms one day and her cartoon was on a line of children's clothing. She sued and won. If you ever see Crabby Pants on some clothing be sure to let me know. I would love a big payday.

Cheryl P. said...

I am so curious as to how this end up. I think that the kids' families, Holloway's family and the local authorities, need to work it out so the kids face up to their responsibilities. You are so right that if they skate on this it will set a bad precedent for their futures. On the web site, Holloway says he is open to the idea that the parents work with the authorities to decide appropriate punishments. That sounds pretty generous on his part.

Cheryl P. said...

Robyn, you and Crabby Pants should both be judges. Do you look good in black? I'll bet you do.

Gosh, going in front of Judge Judy would be cruel and unusual punishment in it's own right. I would get in trouble as soon as she starting screaming "Do you think I am stupid?" Why does she keep asking that question of everyone in her courtroom? I just wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut..what if I shouted back ."maybe and you're more than a little hostile too." Can Judge Judy sentence people to real jail or just bad realty show jail?"

You have a great weekend as well. Be sure to have some good chocolate. I heard on this morning's news there is going to be a huge price spike in chocolate.

Liggybee said...

It's so unfortunate that these young people have no sense of accountability for their actions...and even more unfortunate for our society if their own parents consent to this kind of behavior. Protecting our children/teenagers is one thing...teaching them responsibility is another. :(

meleahrebeccah said...

No ­ you're right. My son knows there would be REAL consequences.

Cheryl P. said...

Hi Liggy, For whatever reason, I didn't notice your comment. I have been real hit and miss this week on the computer.

I agree...that a lot of parents want their kids to be in the cool crowd at any expense and the parents want to be their friends not their parents.

Probably some of the parents are taking actions to get their children involved in reconstitution and such but I suspect there are a large number that are blaming the "other" kids. This would be a powerful teaching moment for this group of parents. They should use it.